1 00:00:33,099 --> 00:00:36,536 That is well known, among people in Sweden, 2 00:00:36,669 --> 00:00:38,238 and among young people in Sweden, 3 00:00:38,271 --> 00:00:41,374 that it is illegal to even use drugs, 4 00:00:41,374 --> 00:00:42,842 not only to possess them. 5 00:00:42,842 --> 00:00:46,413 And that prevents a lot of people from using it. 6 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,349 Most people want to follow the law. 7 00:00:49,382 --> 00:00:50,683 Its as simple as that. 8 00:00:56,322 --> 00:00:58,058 From the civil rights point of view 9 00:00:58,091 --> 00:01:00,293 I don't think you should criminalize 10 00:01:00,293 --> 00:01:03,563 something that is directed against yourself. 11 00:01:03,663 --> 00:01:08,068 As a criminologist measuring the effectiveness 12 00:01:08,101 --> 00:01:10,070 we cannot see that this has been effective. 13 00:01:14,407 --> 00:01:17,277 It's quite easy to get a hold of drugs in Sweden. 14 00:01:17,343 --> 00:01:21,581 You know, like heroin, amphetamine, hashish, 15 00:01:21,581 --> 00:01:27,420 whatever you know, pills, benzodiazepines. No problem at all. 16 00:01:27,854 --> 00:01:29,622 If you ask the question: 17 00:01:29,622 --> 00:01:31,825 have you ever tried an illicit drug? 18 00:01:31,825 --> 00:01:35,495 To fifteen, sixteen year olds, the figure in Sweden 19 00:01:35,495 --> 00:01:40,900 is about now around 7% or so and if you take other, 20 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:44,471 the top countries in Europe you end up around 40. 21 00:01:44,704 --> 00:01:46,739 And if you would take the UK for instance, 22 00:01:46,806 --> 00:01:51,811 you have in a classroom, you have one kid out of five 23 00:01:51,845 --> 00:01:53,580 who is a regular smoker. 24 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:56,883 And in Sweden you have one kid out of a hundred. 25 00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:00,220 It's completely unimportant if someone 26 00:02:00,220 --> 00:02:05,291 has tried drugs once in his life or twice or three times. 27 00:02:05,358 --> 00:02:07,694 What should be compared is those 28 00:02:07,694 --> 00:02:10,930 with a problematic use. 29 00:02:15,235 --> 00:02:19,706 If you look on the numbers on problematic drug users, 30 00:02:19,739 --> 00:02:23,676 its high compared with other western countries. 31 00:02:24,110 --> 00:02:27,814 And if we have a low figure on teenagers 32 00:02:27,814 --> 00:02:30,216 that have tried drugs, okay fine, 33 00:02:30,583 --> 00:02:34,454 but it has nothing to do with politics its more our culture. 34 00:02:34,554 --> 00:02:38,191 So what is the drug policy that they are so proud of? 35 00:02:38,224 --> 00:02:39,726 We have a lot of people that die. 36 00:02:39,726 --> 00:02:41,995 I mean if you look on the numbers, in percentage, 37 00:02:42,061 --> 00:02:46,699 Sweden has 50% more overdoses than Holland. 38 00:02:46,733 --> 00:02:48,635 We have a goal of a drug free society, 39 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:53,406 drugs defined as illicit drugs in this case. 40 00:02:54,941 --> 00:02:57,777 And one has to realize that practically, 41 00:02:57,810 --> 00:03:00,213 we will of course never reach that goal, 42 00:03:00,246 --> 00:03:01,648 but its more like a vision. 43 00:03:01,748 --> 00:03:05,018 It has been most detrimental to drug policy. 44 00:03:07,253 --> 00:03:09,956 It doesn't sound as dangerous as it is 45 00:03:09,989 --> 00:03:14,360 but it is a concept that implies 46 00:03:14,394 --> 00:03:19,832 that if this is a goal, than the means do not count. 47 00:03:19,999 --> 00:03:23,403 Everybody should of course be trying 48 00:03:23,436 --> 00:03:25,405 in their work to reduce harm, 49 00:03:25,438 --> 00:03:27,640 and the most important way to reduce harm 50 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:30,376 is to prevent people from using drugs. 51 00:03:30,476 --> 00:03:32,512 Preventing young people from ever starting, 52 00:03:32,512 --> 00:03:34,147 thats number one. 53 00:03:34,147 --> 00:03:35,949 Yeah there was some kind of a prevention 54 00:03:35,949 --> 00:03:38,151 in school when I grew up. 55 00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:40,987 Policemen would come with sort of a box, 56 00:03:40,987 --> 00:03:44,791 a wooden box with a glass cover on it, 57 00:03:44,791 --> 00:03:47,093 and inside it were different drugs, 58 00:03:47,093 --> 00:03:49,896 a piece of hashish, and some grass, 59 00:03:49,896 --> 00:03:52,832 and some white powder, and he pointed out: 60 00:03:52,832 --> 00:03:56,369 'that's hashish and thats really bad for you, 61 00:03:56,369 --> 00:03:58,605 and they tried to scare you off drugs like: 62 00:03:58,605 --> 00:04:01,908 'that makes you paranoid' or 'that will make you die' , 63 00:04:01,908 --> 00:04:05,078 and so, but it didn't work like that, you know 64 00:04:05,078 --> 00:04:08,881 it only made it more interesting. 65 00:04:08,915 --> 00:04:10,650 Those who have started, 66 00:04:10,683 --> 00:04:12,919 one should try by all means, 67 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:14,687 to make them quit. 68 00:04:14,687 --> 00:04:16,889 Yes I've been in drug-free treatment 69 00:04:16,889 --> 00:04:20,660 for almost a year in 2005, 70 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:23,229 and it didn't do anything for me. 71 00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:25,398 That was a twelve step treatment. 72 00:04:25,431 --> 00:04:27,600 And I had been to some twelve step meetings 73 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,704 before that, and I instantly new 74 00:04:31,704 --> 00:04:33,172 that it was nothing for me, 75 00:04:33,273 --> 00:04:38,478 because its a kind of a religious sect looking thing. 76 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,855 Drugs have always been around, 77 00:04:48,855 --> 00:04:51,024 illicit drugs drugs have been around for thousands of years. 78 00:04:52,558 --> 00:04:55,995 And I think were going to have it in a thousand years to come. 79 00:04:57,130 --> 00:04:59,532 But what vision would we have 80 00:04:59,532 --> 00:05:02,335 if we didn't have the zero vision? 81 00:05:07,407 --> 00:05:09,609 The vision of a drug free society 82 00:05:09,609 --> 00:05:11,978 is not really realistic I would say. 83 00:05:12,979 --> 00:05:16,749 And in that sense we have to do good things 84 00:05:18,284 --> 00:05:19,519 for the people that are already actually 85 00:05:19,519 --> 00:05:24,390 in the active drug use at the moment. 86 00:05:24,791 --> 00:05:26,726 Harm reduction is an idea, 87 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:32,965 that they think accepts drug use. 88 00:05:33,533 --> 00:05:38,104 We try to tell them that what we work for here, 89 00:05:38,304 --> 00:05:40,106 it has nothing to do with drugs, 90 00:05:40,707 --> 00:05:42,442 we work with people. 91 00:05:42,508 --> 00:05:43,443 What you need today, 92 00:05:43,443 --> 00:05:45,178 what you are able to do today 93 00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:46,813 must be the most important thing. 94 00:05:46,813 --> 00:05:48,848 And if you start to do heroin today 95 00:05:48,848 --> 00:05:51,551 you don't run to the social services tomorrow 96 00:05:51,551 --> 00:05:52,919 and say hey I want to stop. 97 00:05:53,553 --> 00:05:55,655 It goes a lot of years in between, 98 00:05:55,688 --> 00:05:58,458 where society must do everything they can. 99 00:05:58,591 --> 00:05:59,559 Help them stay alive, 100 00:05:59,559 --> 00:06:02,662 to maybe in the end get drug free. 101 00:06:03,062 --> 00:06:04,397 But I mean if you get drug free, 102 00:06:04,397 --> 00:06:07,467 and you are HIV positive, Hep C positive, 103 00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:10,603 and you have had two endocarditis, 104 00:06:10,903 --> 00:06:13,239 and three sepsis, I mean then 105 00:06:13,272 --> 00:06:17,910 you're in bad shape to be a good citizen. 106 00:06:19,645 --> 00:06:22,582 There is a limit as to where political power 107 00:06:22,582 --> 00:06:26,319 should go in peoples lives, of course. 108 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:30,323 But that is always a problem in any political system: 109 00:06:30,323 --> 00:06:32,258 where does political power end, 110 00:06:32,258 --> 00:06:35,094 and where does personal power start? 111 00:06:35,228 --> 00:06:36,863 I rode motorcycle for many years, 112 00:06:37,130 --> 00:06:39,732 and I think its a perfectly good law 113 00:06:39,732 --> 00:06:43,603 that we force motorcyclists to wear a helmet. 114 00:06:43,603 --> 00:06:48,274 And I think we do have the right to say to people 115 00:06:48,274 --> 00:06:51,310 it is illegal to use drugs, you should not use drugs. 116 00:06:51,477 --> 00:06:54,814 I think the analogy is still wrong. 117 00:06:54,814 --> 00:07:02,255 First because it is not a violation of your integrity 118 00:07:02,255 --> 00:07:06,692 to ask you to wear a safety belt or a helmet. 119 00:07:07,393 --> 00:07:10,163 But to be brought down to the police station 120 00:07:10,196 --> 00:07:12,698 and be forced to give a urine test 121 00:07:12,765 --> 00:07:17,136 under humiliating circumstances, 122 00:07:17,170 --> 00:07:19,071 that is quite a different thing. 123 00:07:19,205 --> 00:07:27,246 The problem if you extend the use of penal measures, 124 00:07:27,246 --> 00:07:29,348 as was recommended by the RNS, 125 00:07:29,348 --> 00:07:33,186 is that you have a large number of behaviors 126 00:07:33,186 --> 00:07:34,954 that should be criminalized. 127 00:07:34,954 --> 00:07:36,856 First of course the use of alcohol. 128 00:07:36,923 --> 00:07:41,060 You could then also criminalize sports. 129 00:07:41,828 --> 00:07:48,701 The most common cause of accidents 130 00:07:48,734 --> 00:07:51,270 in the police is land hockey. 131 00:07:52,138 --> 00:07:54,440 You could criminalize eating too much 132 00:07:54,474 --> 00:07:58,344 and exercising to little, people get fat, 133 00:07:58,344 --> 00:07:59,645 they get diseases. 134 00:07:59,645 --> 00:08:01,247 I'm not making a joke of this, 135 00:08:01,247 --> 00:08:04,150 because there is quite a risk 136 00:08:04,183 --> 00:08:07,487 when you use risk reasoning. 137 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:08,988 Why should we learn from England? 138 00:08:08,988 --> 00:08:10,923 Why should we learn from U.K.? 139 00:08:10,990 --> 00:08:13,092 Why should we learn to fail? 140 00:08:13,192 --> 00:08:15,628 I don't see any problem with the human rights, 141 00:08:15,628 --> 00:08:18,731 with human rights and restrictive policy, 142 00:08:18,764 --> 00:08:22,301 no, its no problem. 143 00:08:22,535 --> 00:08:23,636 Yeah we respect human rights 144 00:08:23,636 --> 00:08:25,705 when it happens in other countries. 145 00:08:26,606 --> 00:08:29,976 Swedish politicians are always on the barricades, 146 00:08:30,409 --> 00:08:34,213 complaining on Burma, how they treat the monks 147 00:08:34,447 --> 00:08:37,617 or how kids are treated in Romania, 148 00:08:37,617 --> 00:08:40,219 or whatever but, how do we treat 149 00:08:40,253 --> 00:08:43,322 the drug users in Sweden? Or the prostitutes? 150 00:08:44,657 --> 00:08:47,059 Again, what are they proud of? 151 00:08:47,927 --> 00:08:49,829 Sweden has been a hawk. 152 00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:53,366 And that is serious, 153 00:08:53,399 --> 00:08:55,301 it has sided with the United States, 154 00:08:55,501 --> 00:08:58,938 with Russia, and with undemocratic states 155 00:08:58,971 --> 00:09:02,875 in the arabic part of the world, 156 00:09:04,477 --> 00:09:06,145 and Sweden should not do that. 157 00:09:06,812 --> 00:09:08,614 And Sweden is dangerous because 158 00:09:08,781 --> 00:09:11,183 Sweden is looked upon as an example. 159 00:09:11,684 --> 00:09:13,219 Because Sweden has a good record 160 00:09:13,219 --> 00:09:15,855 in the field of welfare policy, and the others. 161 00:09:15,855 --> 00:09:19,959 And I would also say earlier, in criminal policy. 162 00:09:20,026 --> 00:09:22,862 And Sweden should take that role again, 163 00:09:23,996 --> 00:09:28,868 and try to put forward a welfare model, 164 00:09:28,968 --> 00:09:30,536 and a harm reduction model, 165 00:09:30,603 --> 00:09:31,837 and a pragmatic model 166 00:09:31,837 --> 00:09:35,174 in the field of drug policy.